The Cultural Leadership Programme, which promotes leadership excellence in the arts, has teamed an artist with a director of Tate St Ives

Gill Nicol I was an artist until I was 36. I'm now 47, so it's been a while since I made any work. For the last 10 years I've worked at grass-roots level in the arts and education sector. I'm in a position where I know a little about a lot. Tate St Ives was a massive hook [for the CLP Peach Placement scheme]. It's a beautiful place. It's Tate, but it's the smallest one.

Mark Osterfield I've been in post as executive director at Tate St Ives since July 2007. The question we're responding to is: What contribution can a national gallery make in a rural region? Geographically, St Ives is very peripheral. But it has this amazing history. It was a leading place in the international art movement during the mid-20th century.

GN Tate is massive, one of the leaders in the world in terms of what happens in art galleries. I thought this would be a good place to see what it's like to work for Tate, but also to work in a rural context.

MO We've been a successful tourist attraction for the last 15 years and a model of how tourism can contribute to regeneration. What we're now interested in is how we can contribute more to some of the regional agendas in terms of creativity and learning and the confidence of Cornwall, the new Cornwall that's coming through.

GN Over 80 per cent of visitors are tourists. There's a specific expectation, it's part of the package of when they come on holiday. So Tate St Ives has to work hard to not just be a visitor attraction, but to be an international space. The task that was set [for me] was to write an audience development plan, and my heart is embedded in that-I'm interested in art and audiences.

MO I think it is taking time, but we're beginning to bear the fruits. Since I've been here there have been lots of discussions with the community and we've created a community liaison post. I feel that they are beginning to understand [what we're trying to achieve] mainly because they're much more involved here. It's about the whole issue of dialogue.

GN Tate St Ives was built in 1993 for 70,000 visitors. It's been a real success, so it has up to 240,000 a year and can be too full in the summer. There have been lots of negotiations about how to make it bigger. Mark was brought in to get the community on board, because their first reaction was "we don't want you to grow". In the last four years there has been a fantastic amount of work done. Now there's a spirit of Tate being really meaningful to the community it sits in. There's still work to be done but that's part of my audience development plan.

MO It's been interesting analysing some of the stuff we've been doing instinctually with Gill. It's been like having a little think tank in the gallery. She's not involved in the treadmill of production, so has time to think about it and bring a different perspective to what we're doing. She's done a lot of research, so we've got a lot more comparative information.

GN It's been a massive six months of self-reflection. The placement has given me time to think about what the word leader means. The skills and values I have as an artist I can now bring out in how I work with people,
things such as a non-hierarchical approach, being very self-led, interested in research and dialogue, and not being a lone artist but working with others.

MO We've built a very strong relationship. It doesn't feel as if it's been about me downloading leadership information to Gill. She's helped me to re-evaluate some of what I do and it's been interesting having that mirrored back; how she perceives the way I work in terms of leadership skills and styles.

GN Mark has been an inspiration. He's a very special person. He's confident in himself, which allows him to be generous. He's very interested in other people's opinions. Everyone is always given a voice.

MO Gill is massively enthusiastic. She has a really strong, enquiring mind. And she's a can-do person. She thinks broadly and is quite innovative in her thinking. And she's effective in engaging with people and stimulating discussion and listening.